tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post6932992012463340557..comments2024-01-30T02:12:25.330-05:00Comments on Eddie Campbell: Eddie Campbellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02492020671613766729noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-51497512533928390882007-11-22T18:32:00.000-05:002007-11-22T18:32:00.000-05:00"Demanding "a comic what" is like saying: 'compute..."Demanding "a comic what" is like saying: 'compute' is a verb, "<BR/><BR/>compute IS a verb. you've lost me.<BR/><BR/>but once again... "You must toe the Party line, Campbell."<BR/><BR/>No, my friend, I won't.Eddie Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02492020671613766729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-55183537007749189512007-11-15T19:21:00.000-05:002007-11-15T19:21:00.000-05:00I used 'lowbrow' entirely in a mood of mockery. Re...<I>I used 'lowbrow' entirely in a mood of mockery. Replace it with 'dumbassed' if you want it to be politically neutral. 'The dumbassed colonisation of culture'.<BR/></I><BR/><BR/>The problem is that "lowbrow" has a meaning which is reasonably clear -- albeit far more obscure these days than it was fifty years ago, what with the changing nature of culture. But still, one can talk about "lowbrow" and be reasonably communicative.<BR/><BR/>Where as "dumbass" is simply in the eye of the beholder: you think the culture is being colonized by the dumbass, which gives me some very vague sense of what you mean, but it's not nearly as good a term.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I think that trying to dismiss large fractions of the culture by some quick categorization -- its medium, its genre, its "brow" level, what Harold Bloom thinks of it, or whatever -- is both silly and inaccurate, and ultimately a negative thing to do. I think that works -- any work -- have to be evaluated on their merits, or not at all.<BR/><BR/><I>abstract, and very idealistic, but I've been onto this shit since the early seventies. It aint going to happen, and in fact I have written at length about how I see the situation actually going the other way, becoming more conservative. the world is not changing its mind...</I><BR/><BR/>I see in this the symptom of many early pioneers of cultural change: an inability to recognize change when it comes, because it is always slower than it ought to be. I think the world <I>is</I> changing its mind.<BR/><BR/>(I suspect that this is simply a case where we disagree about the facts of the matter... I think I'm right, but I'm not sure what I could do to convince you (quite possibly nothing.))<BR/><BR/>(True, Hollywood has embraced superheroes... but that actually <I>lessens</I> their association with comics (to use my term), since they are now clearly a genre separate from any particular medium. You can now spend a lot of time with superhero stories and never get near a comic book; you can now read a lot of comic books and never get near a superhero.)<BR/><BR/><I>"Maus is a comic "<BR/><BR/>you know,just to be a pain in the ass I think I'll go back to a hundred years ago . Comic is an adjective. a comic what?</I><BR/><BR/>But you give away the game with the whole "go back to a hundred years ago" bit. Comic <I>was</I> an adjective. The language has changed. (Granted, some speakers haven't changed... but the answer to that is to keep using the terms in their present day sense, clarifying where necessary.) "Comic" was an adjective; now it is also a noun, whose meaning is only historically related to its adjective meaning. (This is totally banal in language: words take on new meanings, even contradictory ones, all the time.)<BR/><BR/>Demanding "a comic what" is like saying: 'compute' is a verb, what is this <I>computing</I> you are doing? Sure, a hundred years ago that might have been a reasonable question. Now a computer is a noun, a thing. The language -- and the world -- have changed.<BR/><BR/>SFStephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16524368948187746248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-638460576030295122007-11-15T19:04:00.000-05:002007-11-15T19:04:00.000-05:00StephenI used 'lowbrow' entirely in a mood of mock...Stephen<BR/><BR/>I used 'lowbrow' entirely in a mood of mockery. Replace it with 'dumbassed' if you want it to be politically neutral. 'The dumbassed colonisation of culture'.<BR/><BR/><I>"Why would it be a bad thing if people came to see that comic books -- or, as I (and many others) prefer, "comics" -- as simply a medium, which could be about anything?"</I><BR/><BR/>abstract, and very idealistic, but I've been onto this shit since the early seventies. It aint going to happen, and in fact I have written at length about how I see the situation actually going the other way, becoming more conservative. the world is not changing its mind. it and Hollywood have embraced the superhero. <BR/><BR/><I>"Maus is a comic "</I><BR/><BR/>you know,just to be a pain in the ass I think I'll go back to a hundred years ago . Comic is an adjective. a comic what?Eddie Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02492020671613766729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-15258063257088049202007-11-15T18:48:00.000-05:002007-11-15T18:48:00.000-05:00"illiterature"uh-oh."illiterature"<BR/><BR/>uh-oh.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-89480994780385463992007-11-15T18:27:00.000-05:002007-11-15T18:27:00.000-05:00The world thinks comic books are about superheroes...<I>The world thinks comic books are about superheroes and so do I.</I><BR/><BR/>The world is changing its mind -- and I think that's a <I>good</I> thing, since, well, Maus is a comic but not about superheroes. And I, personally, would say the same about Alec. And a whole lot of other works.<BR/><BR/>Why would it be a <I>bad</I> thing if people came to see that comic books -- or, as I (and many others) prefer, "comics" -- as simply a medium, which could be about anything?<BR/><BR/><I>as for this highbrow/lowbrow dichotomy... can't argue with you. Seems to be a political angle under your beef. A socialist agenda. You still think the rich people have kept education and the cultural wealth of the world to themselves perhaps</I><BR/><BR/>I won't deny leftist leanings, although I don't know if I'd call myself a "socialist". But what's at stake here are cultural politics -- not quite the same thing. I do think that the whole "brow" discourse -- and what it springs from -- is a negative force. I'm hardly unusual in this -- the high culture-low culture split, so dominant for most of the 20th Century, has been increasingly abandoned, for, I think, good reasons.<BR/><BR/><I>name one place where I have used the word 'highbrow'</I><BR/><BR/>You're right: my mistake.<BR/><BR/>But I do think that highbrow goes hand in hand with lowbrow (historically, as the terms have been used, they certainly were introduced and used as a pair (or, starting in the early 1950's, part of a trio with "middlebrow"). So I think that using the term "lowbrow" buys into the scheme as its been historically used (unless one takes care to articulate another meaning, and I don't see having you done that).<BR/><BR/>But I shouldn't have said you use the term; I corrected the post.Stephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16524368948187746248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-17681109402219464022007-11-15T17:19:00.000-05:002007-11-15T17:19:00.000-05:00a quibble however..."lowbrow and highbrow culture ...a quibble however...<BR/><BR/>"lowbrow and highbrow culture (he uses these terms;"<BR/><BR/>name one place where I have used the word 'highbrow'Eddie Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02492020671613766729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-56197947061764730542007-11-15T17:01:00.000-05:002007-11-15T17:01:00.000-05:00Stephen,the world thinks comic books are about sup...Stephen,<BR/>the world thinks comic books are about superheroes and so do I.<BR/><BR/>everything clear on that one.<BR/><BR/>Spiegelman would probably describe Maus as 'comic book,' but his concept of comic book predates 'comic book culture,' and he's thinking of Kurtzman's Mad. That postion is quaintly marginal and we love hm for it..<BR/><BR/>your intellectually acute idea that everything is a great big plate of soup is intriguing. I'll have two serves.<BR/><BR/>with croutons<BR/><BR/>as for this highbrow/lowbrow dichotomy... can't argue with you. Seems to be a political angle under your beef. A socialist agenda. You still think the rich people have kept education and the cultural wealth of the world to themselves perhaps.Eddie Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02492020671613766729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-67440760796550422922007-11-15T16:17:00.000-05:002007-11-15T16:17:00.000-05:00indeed it should, but we are forced to mutilate th...indeed it should, but we are forced to mutilate the language for clarity, that is , most reading this will associate 'media' withe the reporting agencies of tv, radio, newspapers , magazines: 'THE media'. thus I think that one will change.<BR/><BR/><I>"Beware, however, when using media and medium. Consensus for standard usage in formal writing and, indeed, anything outside of the mass communication and advertising fields, is this: media is the standard plural--media as singular and medias as plural are incorrect. In formal writing, such as technical reporting, use media as a plural noun and medium as a singular noun. Sometimes the English plural mediums is used, as in "Technical report writing is one of the important mediums of communication." It is sometimes used to refer to materials of artistic expression and to the substance in which organisms grow ("We cultured the biopsy in several different mediums."), but it should not be used instead of media."</I>Eddie Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02492020671613766729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-14563253498848423302007-11-15T15:46:00.000-05:002007-11-15T15:46:00.000-05:00A small, pedantic point:Mustn't the plural of medi...A small, pedantic point:<BR/><BR/>Mustn't the plural of <I>medium</I> be <I>media</I>?Isaachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06529618611083147320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-84557030043787787652007-11-15T14:22:00.000-05:002007-11-15T14:22:00.000-05:00I just left a lengthy response to this post (and t...I just left a lengthy response to this post (and to Campbell's view of related matters in general) on my own blog, if anyone's interested:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://stephenfrug.blogspot.com/2007/11/of-eddie-campbell-useful-distinctions.html" REL="nofollow">http://stephenfrug.blogspot.com/2007/11/of-eddie-campbell-useful-distinctions.html</A><BR/><BR/>SFStephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16524368948187746248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-16907849702439039912007-11-15T12:56:00.000-05:002007-11-15T12:56:00.000-05:00And let's not forget the lovely "fumetti"! The Ita...And let's not forget the lovely "fumetti"! <BR/>The Italians do not seem very much into these (if I am to judge by the ridiculous amount of fumetti I see in the main bookshops here in Rome) despite having some great national authors, but I do find the word itself (for the speech balloon that look like smoke) brilliant.spacedlawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12462723005560128474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-10658088566244248482007-11-15T12:24:00.000-05:002007-11-15T12:24:00.000-05:00One of the useful words, because everybody knows w...<I>One of the useful words, because everybody knows what it means. American style comic books. ... But there's a lot of stuff that doesn't fit here. e.g. Posy Simmonds, Maus, Shaun Tan's the Arrival to name but three just to establish the picture</I><BR/><BR/>I've seen Maus called a comic book a lot of times, so it's not true that "everybody knows what it means" if by that you mean that everybody would agree with what you wrote above.<BR/><BR/>SFStephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16524368948187746248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-82225137977398756712007-11-15T10:06:00.000-05:002007-11-15T10:06:00.000-05:00I suppose I haven't convinced you that journalists...I suppose I haven't convinced you that journalists aren't nitwits. To say my piece, I understand where you're coming from, but all I wanted to do was point readers who might wonder over the various terminology used related to [vague encompassing term re: comics] to your site for some added wisdom from an experienced veteran of the industry. <BR/><BR/>Sorry to put you off so. I do enjoy your musings, and I'll try to respond to them with more clarity in the future.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-65782178709560195002007-11-15T07:51:00.000-05:002007-11-15T07:51:00.000-05:00But what has all of this got to do with Batman?Mic...But what has all of this got to do with Batman?<BR/><BR/>MickAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-74267785467583146402007-11-15T05:58:00.000-05:002007-11-15T05:58:00.000-05:00Speaking of "comic books": The Revolt of the Comic...Speaking of "comic books": <A HREF="http://www.technoccult.com/archives/2007/11/14/the-revolt-of-the-comic-books/" REL="nofollow">The Revolt of the Comic Books</A> (original article <A HREF="http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_revolt_of_the_comic_boooks" REL="nofollow">here</A>, but doesn't have the excellent cover you get at the first link), about the stirrings of political protest in mainstream USAnian comic books in the current climate.drjonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14351916590417179786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-55371490344722908972007-11-15T04:38:00.000-05:002007-11-15T04:38:00.000-05:00More posts about The Mammy's underpants, I think.More posts about The Mammy's underpants, I think.Hayley Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16493916787628212228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-75517469329847762482007-11-15T00:46:00.000-05:002007-11-15T00:46:00.000-05:00I can only hope this glossary will prevent people ...I can only hope this glossary will prevent people from going down the shameful path I know all too well.Dick Hyacinth's Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11199236541341734429noreply@blogger.com