tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post1876108404503808979..comments2024-03-27T05:22:27.604-05:00Comments on Eddie Campbell: The last word in Speech Balloons. (rule #3)Eddie Campbellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02492020671613766729noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-19237807290294690602007-03-04T21:55:00.000-05:002007-03-04T21:55:00.000-05:00Having had dinner with J.M DeMatteis (the author o...Having had dinner with J.M DeMatteis (the author of Greenberg)last night for the first time in many years. As we start to plan a web comic in Flash, thanks for noticing. It's nice to be remembered for things you try and my second gig in the biz.<BR/><BR/>Mark Badger<BR/>(artist of Greenberg the Vampire)Mark Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05782149227841720931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-83484787102413519312007-02-28T19:42:00.000-05:002007-02-28T19:42:00.000-05:00I used to tell some of my more scholarly writer pa...I used to tell some of my more scholarly writer pals that there were things you could do in comics that you cannot do in any other type of story telling. Not with short stories or novels or in film.<BR/><BR/>The next time one of these folk ask for details, I shall send them straight to this blog.<BR/><BR/>I recall years ago being impressed with the graphic novel, GREENBERG THE VAMPIRE. Not because the story itself was particularly good (it was decent enough), and not because the artwork was spectacular (it was okay, too). But because both the author and the artist really played with the form in some interesting ways. (I have to admit that it's been a very long time since I've read that graphic novel, so my memory of it is rusty.)<BR/><BR/>However, I do recall thinking that the creative team on it had explored a few new ideas on how to tell a story with words and balloons and sequential art.James Robert Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17281049641681225389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-16382216803462794052007-02-26T16:23:00.000-05:002007-02-26T16:23:00.000-05:00I was just about to write an impassioned screed in...I was just about to write an impassioned screed in defense of the ellipsis, which I use liberally in <I>Machiavelli</I> to denote a pause in speech, casting about for the proper word, etc. Then I realized that Eddie will not tolerate the <I>elipse</I> (by which I'm assuming you mean computer-generated word balloons?) and realize I'm in agreement. Very well then.<BR/><BR/>I do, however, use a computer font, <A HREF="http://www.p22.com/ihof/font.asp?font=operina&face=operinaproset" REL="nofollow">Operina Pro</A>, for Machiavelli. It makes a lot more sense to use a typeface that complements the period.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-252929792698975952007-02-26T11:14:00.000-05:002007-02-26T11:14:00.000-05:00I got my break in comics doing balloon lettering o...I got my break in comics doing balloon lettering on other people's work. In those days in UK comics, it was done on sticky back paper that was put onto the already inked artwork. I got to work over such wonderful artists as Solano Lopez, Joe Colquhon, Ken Reid and Leo Baxendale.<BR/><BR/>It was quite an education, not only because it allowed me to study original art up close, but also because the artists had a great feel for where the lettering should be placed and left "holes" in the artwork where they wanted it to go.<BR/><BR/>When I graduated to drawing strips rather than just lettering them I did my own lettering where I could, for two very pragmatic reasons and one aesthetic one. Pragmatically, it meant that I didn't have to waste time drawing stuff that was going to be covered up anyway and also that I got an extra payment for filling up the space. The aesthetic reason was that I hated handing in pages of art that looked incomplete and unbalanced because they lacked lettering. In those days my art needed every bit of aesthetic help it could get...<BR/><BR/>My feeling is that the drawing should be arranged around the lettering rather than the reverse and I always indicate it from the very crudest first thumbnail I do for a page. Like Eddie, I'll then rough pencil the lettering and the art together and only when I have ensured that there is room for the lettering will I tighten up the drawing.<BR/><BR/>in the case of Watchmen, where space was very formally and tightly arranged, I'd ink the lettering and balloons before doing much drawing at all. <BR/><BR/>Nowadays, I do use a computer font, which I had made by the experts at Comicraft but still set the balloons before I complete the pencilling. I'll sometimes print them out in light blue on the artboard and draw around them. I'm aware of the arguments against computer lettering but I'm very happy with the results I get, since the spacing and placing is still clearly mine. <BR/><BR/>The considerations of "breathing space" and text block shape inside the balloon remain critical, whether inking digitally or manually and are what gives it its graphic identity, possibly more so than the actual letterforms. Lettering digitally allows more time to be spent on these considerations and for tweaking balloon shapes away from the vanilla ellipse, which I share Eddie's loathing of.<BR/><BR/>I also tend to subscribe to Campbell's Latest Rule (#3). Looking forward to discussing the Next...Dave Gibbonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13749743234362113685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-77531061929832510622007-02-26T01:21:00.000-05:002007-02-26T01:21:00.000-05:00before i gosteveI flicked back a couple of pages a...before i go<BR/>steve<BR/>I flicked back a couple of pages and responded better than this<BR/>thanks for taking the time.<BR/><BR/>eddieEddie Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02492020671613766729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-40725895725267032672007-02-26T01:06:00.000-05:002007-02-26T01:06:00.000-05:00Peter!coincidence.Anne was just asking what Fourpl...Peter!<BR/>coincidence.<BR/>Anne was just asking what Fourplay were up to these days and then you suddenly commented on the other page a couple days back. great to hear from you. hope you're well. say hi to the band!<BR/><BR/>(you had me for a minute about the cello)<BR/><BR/>eddie and Anne<BR/><BR/>nathalie<BR/>i met Druillet once, back in '84...<BR/><BR/>John<BR/>yes, Bryan is always logical about the balloons.<BR/><BR/>Steve<BR/>i meant to say hi to your big long one on the other page, but i'm finally finding it hard to keep up here. Great to hear from you ... don't be a stranger again...<BR/><BR/>everybody else<BR/><BR/>AAAARGGHH<BR/>gotta take monty to the vetEddie Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02492020671613766729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-16779262888338463362007-02-25T22:23:00.000-05:002007-02-25T22:23:00.000-05:00I once heard B.Talbot talk about how he used lette...I once heard B.Talbot talk about how he used lettering to lead the reader through the art. Any thoughts on that?Christopher Moonlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16805942313835669938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-80158604463614528602007-02-25T15:01:00.000-05:002007-02-25T15:01:00.000-05:00I get this rule. I'm also intrigued by the Black ...I get this rule. I'm also intrigued by the Black Diamond panel. It appears to have the ability to be read in any order, the comments make sense with either coming first. the overlap, something that I'd assume is deliberate, seems to be to place the higher balloon as the first one, but I could be out. I do remember old British comics, The Beano or 2000AD, used to sometimes guide you through panels if the speech bubbles perhaps led you in a different order.<BR/><BR/>That Bullshit page, I mean, aside from positioning that way to grab the readers attention, they simply frame the images and the page wonderfully, although I'd guess that's because of the way the eye works across a page. I can't really speak on all this from any position of learning, but the placement of the images, like the glass in the second panel leaning into the balloons, and then the eye in the third panel appearing to focus on them somewhat distantly... it feels to me like there's a plan at work. Certainly agree that hand lettered stuff works better.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17550582367655414409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-8117022565371867332007-02-25T14:19:00.000-05:002007-02-25T14:19:00.000-05:00Seems like that would be a good way to do it, but ...Seems like that would be a good way to do it, but I imagine it must take longer. It's weird that more artists don't work more closely with their letterers, but I guess that these days everyone is in a different city/state/country, which can't make things any easier.Johnny Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13302545167970532080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-91196318362739178162007-02-25T11:37:00.000-05:002007-02-25T11:37:00.000-05:00I know from conversations with Bryan Talbot that h...I know from conversations with Bryan Talbot that he also works out the positioning of the balloons first, making sure there's a logical flow from one to the next. He makes detailed guides for his letterers so it's not impossible to do this without doing the lettering yourself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-13220241391836638102007-02-25T07:23:00.000-05:002007-02-25T07:23:00.000-05:00The whole point of language is to be able to impor...The whole point of language is to be able to import information. The point of "rules" within the language are there to remove confusion and help impart that information in the most clear way possible, keeping within the originator's intents.<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, there's plenty of examples in comics when the narrative becomes confusing, even when you've got a revered letterer like Todd Klein. Alan Moore's fantastic Promethea often gets hard to follow as boundaries are pushed later in the series, which just, unfortunately, reduces the power of the original words.<BR/><BR/>It's clear that, even hearing the complaints of artists who've found their detailed work obscured by word balloons (I'm thinking of Gene Ha), and from the times that I've become lost in a narrative, that letters and artists (if they are to be separate) should liaise more with each other on their intentions. <BR/><BR/>Perhaps an artist could do their layouts, send them to the letterer, and then redraw their artwork accordingly.<BR/><BR/>It might take longer, but it might also make for a more satisfying read!Johnny Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07157630082355224244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-68558845452418516412007-02-25T05:25:00.000-05:002007-02-25T05:25:00.000-05:00Breach sent me this but I'm going to post it first...Breach sent me this but I'm going to post it first because he hasn't done it yet and is thus, rubbish.<BR/><BR/>Jon Morris' plea for hand lettering!<BR/><BR/>Part 1 http://comixpedia.com/node/10366<BR/><BR/>Part 2 http://comixpedia.com/my_plea_for_hand_lettering_part_2Hayley Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16493916787628212228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-5508540032725568742007-02-25T05:18:00.000-05:002007-02-25T05:18:00.000-05:00Misplaced balloons can be so annoying. I had an ex...Misplaced balloons can be so annoying. I had an example yesterday when reading the "Hello Cthulhu" on-line strips, the order was just not right: I had to stop, go and pick up a manga and read it in order to reset my reading mechanism, so I could go back on the site and really enjoy the strips.<BR/><BR/>I remember that a common critic to Druillet's books was that people had no clue in what order they had to look at the frames or how they were supposed to read the text (and the ornate lettering did not always help). His more recent works seem to have done away with the more Piranesian approach to frames he had back in the 70's.spacedlawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12462723005560128474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-41014010911503423462007-02-25T04:40:00.000-05:002007-02-25T04:40:00.000-05:00You are lettering king.Love it. I never would've t...You are lettering king.<BR/>Love it. I never would've thought one would do the lettering first! But then I'm not a comics writer/artist am I? You actually do the fingering before the bowing on the cello.<BR/><BR/>Kidding.<BR/><BR/>I don't suppose there's, like, original artwork for the above stuff going? Or are you over that now?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com