tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post2641556171771633315..comments2024-03-27T05:22:27.604-05:00Comments on Eddie Campbell: The empty jug.Eddie Campbellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02492020671613766729noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-24767504878405709232007-06-11T12:49:00.000-05:002007-06-11T12:49:00.000-05:00God, I think I must've spent 3/4s of my life on th...God, I think I must've spent 3/4s of my life on <A HREF="http://www.pseudopodium.org/kokonino/tq/secondconf.html" REL="nofollow">this nonsense</A> by now. What a weary waste. And I still doubt I've ever done better than Samuel R. Delany's one-liner that genres (by definition) can be described but not defined.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-61841014965084598242007-06-11T05:30:00.000-05:002007-06-11T05:30:00.000-05:00Hi eddie,Just wanted to say enjoy this website ver...Hi eddie,<BR/>Just wanted to say enjoy this website very much. <BR/>Might as well throw in my own ill informed opinion, my apolgies,<BR/>Many of the comics and art I like fall outside of generalised definitions. Surely working to 'self imposed definitions' is the artist making a personal asthetic or intellectual choice not part of an overall rule book for what does and does not constitute a comic/ art form.<BR/> I think Frans masereels wood cut novel is a high point, visually, politically and creatively..its a good human story.<BR/>Haven't made much sense, oh well!<BR/>Lee paulAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-44297249550001793322007-06-11T01:44:00.000-05:002007-06-11T01:44:00.000-05:00"I was presuming that everybody here would recogni..."I was presuming that everybody here would recognise a blog when they see it, and I was mocking the tendency in those other places to fret about it. Any defintion is surplus to our requirements."<BR/><BR/>Oh indeed. Me too. I was half pondering out loud as you've got me thinking about something else.Pete Ashtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03850579036751770929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-80271480240428349202007-06-10T16:55:00.000-05:002007-06-10T16:55:00.000-05:00Steve,It's not in my "Forty Formby Favourites', Th...Steve,<BR/>It's not in my "Forty Formby Favourites', <BR/>Though I'll bet 'Frank on his Tank' has a line or two that veers close.<BR/>In KIng Bacchus, The boozy God orders his musicians to play the old Formby hit 'Grandad's Flanelette nightshirt'.<BR/>I used to play this set a lot when Pete and i were working...<BR/><BR/>EddieEddie Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02492020671613766729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-11610624864047760992007-06-10T14:18:00.000-05:002007-06-10T14:18:00.000-05:00Good luck to Hayley. Does that include I'm a Wank...Good luck to Hayley. Does that include I'm a Wanker, or did my Uncle lead me up the garden path with that one?Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17550582367655414409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-64490067507347326812007-06-10T08:59:00.000-05:002007-06-10T08:59:00.000-05:00have you spent the last 595 words (counted them).....<I>have you spent the last 595 words (counted them)...</I><BR/><BR/>Three replies:<BR/><BR/>A) This, my dear online companion in argument, is unworthy of you. First of all, it is a typical anti-intellectual gambit -- "oh, you should be doing/talking about something <I>important</I>" -- which I would hope you wouldn't stoop to. I take thinking (and writing, and speaking, and reading) about interesting intellectual issues -- including the use and disadvantages of definitions for life, to steal a phrase -- to be a good & worthwhile thing in and of itself. (Admitted: I <I>am</I> a graduate student.) To side-step the issue by saying, "oh, you aren't out solving the world's problems" is really not a reply I'd hope to see from you -- even in jest.<BR/><BR/>B) You put "C" in there to make it not <I>solely</I> an issue of 'why aren't you solving the world's problems'... but I think that celebrating the world's intellectual heritage (including, perforce, the pleasures & pains of definitions) is an equally worthy thing as is "celebrating the diversity of the world's artistic heritage".<BR/><BR/>C) "You're black too", quoth the kettle: 'twas you who wrote the post in the first place, and you have spent far more time and attention on this issue than I, including in your artistic work!<BR/><BR/>As always,<BR/><BR/>With respect & admiration,<BR/><BR/>Stephen FrugStephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16524368948187746248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-59081303620455249992007-06-09T23:28:00.000-05:002007-06-09T23:28:00.000-05:00Steve (Block)re Formby, hayley campbell has taken ...Steve (Block)<BR/>re Formby, hayley campbell has taken up the ukele and is working her way through his songbook.<BR/><BR/>Pete<BR/>I was presuming that everybody here would recognise a blog when they see it, and I was mocking the tendency in those other places to fret about it. Any defintion is surplus to our requirements.<BR/><BR/>Tita,<BR/>I love the way you draw. But you should know that.<BR/><BR/>Stephen<BR/>enjoyed your Oulipo piece.<BR/>For the rest of it, I must resist the possibility of mitigating my polished essay by saying something less well-considered down here, <BR/>BUT<BR/>are you arguing for me or against me. have you spent the last 595 words (counted them) <BR/>a) defending a moral principle, <BR/>b) proposing solutions to social ills<BR/>c) celebrating the diversity of the world's artistic heritage<BR/>d) arguing about an empty jug<BR/>:) :) :) <BR/><BR/>EddieEddie Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02492020671613766729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-85393345696046673922007-06-09T11:13:00.000-05:002007-06-09T11:13:00.000-05:00Mr. Campbell, I'm flattered that you found and rea...Mr. Campbell, I'm flattered that you found and read something of mine; thanks for commenting about it. Some of my thoughts were inspired by your discussion about definitions with my friend Stephen Frug, and I was going to try to say something about it, but he covered the topic much more eloquently in his comment above. I do think it's fun and interesting to look at books in these terms, but as he mentioned, I ultimately decided it really doesn't matter; <I>Kampung Boy</I> is a wonderful book, and people should read it whether or not it falls under their arbitrary definition of "comics".<BR/><BR/>By the way, I'm currently reading <I>The Black Diamond Detective Agency</I> and enjoying it quite a bit. Keep up the good work!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13867868039166531163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-79490425383396723532007-06-09T10:36:00.000-05:002007-06-09T10:36:00.000-05:00I gave up on all of this a couple of months ago an...I gave up on all of this a couple of months ago and decided that they were all stories or stuff people do or things I like. It got quite easy after I did that. I don't know what a blog is, what an artists book is or what a comic is, but I know when someone is doing something like telling me a story. And I know when I like it.<BR/><BR/>It's a shame we didn't have all this back on the old Eddie Campbell Comics forum. I'd have loved to riposte White's old who is the best guitarist with "but first define guitar. Doe George Formby count?"<BR/><BR/>Which isn't to say I don't like the stories you spin here. Truth be told, I love looking in here every few weeks and seeing what has you perplexed. It's very relaxing. If I can digress, I did go to that church in Paris you mentioned yesterday, we went there to see The Pixies after London sold out, to which I think we got the best deal, and killed some time sightseeing, and never once did those windows say comics to me. Said a lot of other stuff, but comics? My dad made a stained glass window at art college. Never made a comic.<BR/><BR/>Keep meaning to pick up a Lat book. Gosh told me Alice in Sunderland has gone to a reprint, which is good news for Mr Talbot. I just picked up Porcellino's King Cat Classix hardcover for my birthday, he sure knows how to tell a story.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17550582367655414409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-24557246924859903762007-06-09T09:19:00.000-05:002007-06-09T09:19:00.000-05:00Michel Faber reviewed Alice in Sunderland in today...Michel Faber reviewed Alice in Sunderland in todays Guardian:<BR/><BR/>http://books.guardian.co.uk/reviews/travel/0,,2098597,00.html<BR/><BR/>Ben SmithAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-51039768481255317702007-06-09T05:21:00.000-05:002007-06-09T05:21:00.000-05:00I have given Scott McCloud's book UNDERSTANDING CO...I have given Scott McCloud's book UNDERSTANDING COMICS to folk who don't read comics and who have never read comics. It's one of the best "think" books I've encountered. Talk about your clear thinker.James Robert Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17281049641681225389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-20703359115708944922007-06-09T04:41:00.000-05:002007-06-09T04:41:00.000-05:00I can very much relate to Lat's works, which more ...I can very much relate to Lat's works, which more or less influence my drawing style. It is rather similar to my fondness for <I>Fate</I>. Somehow those square panels are too binding for me and therefore I believed that I can never be a 'real cartoonist'. I'm just happy I don't have to classify myself into anything :) <BR/><BR/>p.s. One of my stories is here: <A HREF="http://24hourcomics.com/2006highlights.html" REL="nofollow">24HCD Highlights 2006</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-2574872338526035972007-06-09T04:37:00.000-05:002007-06-09T04:37:00.000-05:00Chapter XXVI: In Which I Foolishly Rise to Take th...<B>Chapter XXVI: In Which I Foolishly Rise to Take the Bait</B><BR/><BR/>I hate to spoil the power of your final paragraph with dissents, but, well, here goes.<BR/><BR/>Maybe you'd be happier if I phrased my point in a way that's not about definitions?<BR/><BR/>You wrote that <I>unlike Lat (Kampung Boy) who is working outside of this subculture, all of Talbot's typographical decisions tell us clearly that he's making 'a comic book', from the carefully cascaded balloon-text units to the compositional relationship of figure to frame; indeed the whole pictorial space is written in comicbook syntax.</I><BR/><BR/>So whether or not you want to <I>define</I> it, you clearly recognize a (historically and culturally constructed, natch) <I>thing</I> called "comicbook syntax". What I (as reader, as budding creator) found liberating was McCloud's pointing out (as much through example as content) that yes, that syntax could be used to talk about almost anything -- as Talbot's wonderful book (at least I liked it), to say nothing of many other wonderful books, most definitely including yours, demonstrate.<BR/><BR/>I remain fascinated by your <I>resistance</I> to the idea of definition. I continue to think that I (and others who like them) simply don't find them as big a deal as you -- your talk of commandments and conservatism and boundaries show. You experience definitions as constrictions (complaining, as you ironically put in the mouth of your daughter in your book, that people are trying to prevent you from doing a one-panel comic). But for many of us, arguing about definitions is more in the spirit of a game: it's fun to do in and of itself, and some definitions are <I>fruitful</I>, meaning they show us connections we didn't see before, hence open up new possibilities (and are experienced as liberating and not restricting). There's no final authority, but there doesn't need to be: we try out different language games, and put them off when they no longer suit us.<BR/><BR/>For instance: Matt Brady's review very definitely doesn't care about whether something "counts" (although, yes, he also considers the issue): he ends that section of his review by saying that <I>Anyway, why argue about definitions when you've got a beautifully-illustrated story like this one?</I>, and recommending the book.<BR/><BR/>And while definitions can act as constricting, I think that restrictions themselves can inspire creativity -- as the literary group the <A HREF="http://stephenfrug.blogspot.com/2005/11/new-edition-of-oulipo-compendium-is.html" REL="nofollow">Oulipo</A>, and its numerous spin-offs (including the "bande dessinée" group the Oubapo) demonstrate: "Strictures, structures though they bind/Strangely liberate the mind", as James Fallen says in his "odelet in praise of constraints".<BR/><BR/>Which, again, doesn't mean that one wants to spend all one's time in the Oulipian's self-constructed maze. (Co-founder Quineau's definition -- I believe he called it that -- of the Oulipo: "rats who construct the maze from which they plan to escape". Because, you see, it's <I>fun</I>, and there's <I>art</I> in it.)<BR/><BR/>Why define amorphous, historically constructed, culturally evolved and ultimately fuzzy-bounded things like arts? Because it's fun, because we do learn things from self-imposed limits (even if we have to remember to put the limits aside less we also blind ourselves to things too). Because Chess (and here the metaphor is not that comics or artist's books are a game but that <I>thinking about them</I> is) is more fun if you move the pieces in certain ways, rather than act like a two-year-old and toss them higgildy-pidggildy about the room... which is not to say that you can't decide, hey, we'd rather play checkers on this board and we'll call these checkers, or push the whole thing aside and play Go (which, I hear, is a better and subtler game, although I haven't myself ever played it).<BR/><BR/>Cheers,<BR/><BR/>SFStephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16524368948187746248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-43151729081224714852007-06-09T02:09:00.000-05:002007-06-09T02:09:00.000-05:00Hi eddieGreat blog (however it is defined). I am ...Hi eddie<BR/><BR/>Great blog (however it is defined). I am currently studying 'Book Arts and Crafts' in London (with my dissertation being on comics) which means i have hurtled myself headlong into the world of Artists' Books. The definitons can be vague (as in comics) but I would say that Livre d'artistes are a different thing, perhaps a precursor. A good book on the subject is 'The century of Artists' Books' by Johanna Drucker. The first chapter can be found online here.<BR/> http://www.granarybooks.com/books/drucker2/drucker2.html<BR/>Also, I take it from his books, and Talbot's, that McCloud is saying comics can be about anything which is different from defining what can be comics, no? Not that I agree with everything McCloud says...<BR/><BR/>And thanks for your continual and enlightening thoughts on art and life, lang may yr lum reek<BR/><BR/>DamonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-68955637850268686082007-06-09T02:04:00.000-05:002007-06-09T02:04:00.000-05:00Oh, and it's always great to see a LAT mention. I ...Oh, and it's always great to see a LAT mention. I was an Oil Industry baby in the 70s and my formative years were spent in Singapore reading The Kampung Boy. I still have the Straights Times edition from then. Great stuff.Pete Ashtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03850579036751770929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-61913515179962612402007-06-09T01:30:00.000-05:002007-06-09T01:30:00.000-05:00This might help, it might not, but amongst those w...This might help, it might not, but amongst those who've been blogging for blooming ages the general opinion is that blogging is a <B>platform</B>, not a genre. <BR/><BR/>The basic definition is posts or varying length displayed in date order with the newest at the top. And not much else. Anyone who says otherwise is either wrong or has a vested interest.<BR/><BR/>(This is where it might apply to comics...)Pete Ashtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03850579036751770929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1752841194995687278.post-45343128388643799342007-06-09T01:12:00.000-05:002007-06-09T01:12:00.000-05:00nothing important, just wanted to share:i first en...nothing important, just wanted to share:<BR/><BR/>i first encountered Lat in MAT SOM, a sort of continuation of KAMPUNG BOY, this time the protagonist in his mid20s, striving to make a formal paying career out of his art/craft (which is writing), at the same time trying to impress a beautiful girl AND try to cope with the stricter traditions of his country (specifically, arranged marriages). one of the best bits in it was when Mat Som (the protagonist) attended a political rally where a real life local poet activist walked to the microphone and read some verse. it had moments of it being what a McCloudian would call "illustrated prose".<BR/><BR/>i then managed to borrow a copy of KAMPUNG BOY from its Asian publisher, without the reported alterations. i thought it was a nice mix of autobio and humour and politics. i wondered why the West doesn't do this sort of thing more often.<BR/><BR/>PS<BR/>i was very happy to see Lat mentioned in HOW TO BE(at) AN ARTIST.Adam!https://www.blogger.com/profile/10129783455815709787noreply@blogger.com